had difficulty paying attention and remembering things.
It's everyday things I'm talking about: Being in a meeting and
forgetting what we agreed three minutes ago. Out shopping and remembering
and forgetting and remembering and forgetting to buy a phone card.
Buying a round of drinks in a pub and forgetting what people wanted
half way through the order. Etc. etc. etc. It's really depressing me.
It's really depressing in business situations when I promise the Sales
Director our new booking system will do such-and-such, and then
afterwards I have to scratch around after my colleagues to get them to
tell me what I said. And it's especially depressing in social
situations when I keep on losing the thread of conversations, so I've
effectively opted out of having a social life.
So what I'm after is any/all of the following: A) Common-sense
responses if possibly you have seen such improvement in
yourself/others and believe you know why. B) Links to suitable books
on Amazon or similar. C) Links to sites that address this sort of
issue - i.e. for someone in my situation. D) Anything else you can
think of.
But before you dive into this, what I'm not after is: 1) Memory
techniques such as associating something with some other totally
incongruous thing like a drunken wildebeest - they don't seem to work
for me. 2) Taking copious notes, although obvious, isn't suitable - I
take them anyway, but I spend so much time writing things down I miss
the continuing conversation, and anyway sometimes notes aren't
possible if I'm walking down the corridor etc. 3) Things like setting
timed alarms on my mobile phone etc. aren't suitable as I'd spend all
my time doing that. 4) Non-answers like "Oh, don't worry, we're all
like that sometimes". (I really DO seem to have a problem that others
don't.) 5) Huge numbers of links to semi-relevant sites like causes of
ADHD in children. (I'm looking for a few, concise links/suggestions.)
I'm thinking that solutions might be
(i) Lifestyle change - I take very little exercise, I drink too much,
(about 50 Units of alcohol a week, where 1 Unit = 1 cc of alcohol), I
eat mostly junk food, my sleep patterns can be erratic.
(ii) Somehow do something about my mental health - I'm generally
depressed for various other, personal reasons.
(iii) Medicinal solution - e.g. "ProPlus" tablets or similar, or maybe
prescription drugs.
(iv) Something else I'm not even thinking about.
More background: I'm in my early 40s, and have a desk-bound job mostly
on a PC all day.
So. Well. I suppose my final request is: Help!
Many thanks in advance.
Louche :)
It sounds like you have some good advice here already. My only suggestion would be to have a heart-to-heart with your boss that you're having this problem. The best way I found to handle a meeting/classroom situation was to get a decent hand-held recorder and tape the sessions (with permission, of course). Your mind would be more on the meeting and allow you to focus in the moment instead of occupying it with note-taking. Not all the message is delivered by spoken word anyway -- you need to pay attention to the speaker's body language and facial cues as well. Later, you could relisten to the recording when you're in a more relaxed state and jot down just the meeting highlights since you know approximately where they occurred. It's a very small investment (around $50) that pays immense rewards.
Hope this tip helps. You may also want to get yourself a supply of energy bars to keep in your desk as well. V
Your question intrigues me and you seem genuinely concerned about your frequent forgetfulness. I have to say, it would bother me also. I know there have been many times throughout my life when I have been extremely forgetful…….and one of the possibilities you mentioned hits home. Depression. You say you are frequently depressed for other reasons, and I assume you have never taken any medication for this condition, or spoken to a doctor about it. Your job also seems quite stressful, and your lack of memory, which affects your job and life overall, seems to be adding to the stress. Therefore, I was really prompted to research this to see if there were any credible suggestions along the lines you are willing to accept.
An article titled “Memory Problems” at http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/pages2/memory.htm seems very credible in it’s identification of possible causes and suggestions for remedies. Some excerpts follow: Possible causes:
Depression is the most common cause of memory problems. With depression, many of the mental processes are slowed, and memory is particularly affected. Unfortunately, worry about memory loss can worsen the depression, producing a vicious circle. Stress is another common cause of memory problems. Almost any worry or stressful life event can affect our ability to store and recall memories. When the problem is resolved, or time has healed the pain, memory becomes as efficient as it was before. Normal aging. During your mid-40s and 50s, it is quite normal to believe you have become more forgetful. Surveys find that 75% of people over the age of 50 report that they have had some ‘memory problem’ over the past year. But it may not be as bad as you think - young people forget things and don’t bother about it, but older people take more notice of their memory lapses and worry. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that everyday memory lapses are Alzheimer’s disease - forgetting where you put your keys is not Alzheimer’s! (This, however, doesn’t sound like you. Your memory problem seems more serious than mere forgetfulness) The ‘tip-of-the tongue’ phenomenon is a very common experience - your mind suddenly freezes when you need a crucial word, such as a name (often of someone you know well). This is more likely to happen if it is a name that you seldom speak aloud, because scientists believe you are simply having trouble retrieving the actual sound of the word from your memory bank of word sounds. It is a nuisance, but doesn’t mean you are on the way to serious memory loss. (This doesn’t sound like you, either)
Alzheimer’s disease. Of course, a failing memory does occur with Alzheimer’s disease. Alzheimer’s is mainly a disease of the elderly. About 1% of people in their 60s, 20% of those over 85 years and 30% of those over 90 are affected. (Who am I to say, but I doubt it!!)
The article suggests several suggestions, including exploring stress and depression problems, trying Ginko Biloba (though there have several conflicting opinions), exercising, smoking cessation, getting enough sleep and memory exercise tricks (which I know you don’t want.) The next page at http://www.embarrassingproblems.com/pages2/memory3.htm I find particularly interesting in terms of your mention of depression. “Depression can creep up so gradually that you may not be aware that you are suffering from it, so your doctor will first assess whether or not you are depressed. If so, antidepressant medication would be the most appropriate treatment and would restore your memory. The improvement might not be immediate, as antidepressant drugs can take several months to have an effect. Your doctor could also help you to identify stresses or problems that may be affecting your memory, and could advise on coping strategies.” “If you or your doctor cannot work out the reason for your memory problem, he or she could refer you to a special clinic. In the UK, there are about 20 NHS memory clinics and one of the best known is at St Thomas’s Hospital, London. Memory clinics assess whether or not you have a memory impairment and what the cause might be. They also teach strategies to improve the ability to acquire new information and to consolidate and recall facts.”
An article from the American Geriatric Society (definitely not you!) that deals primarily with old age and memory loss has some worthwhile suggestions that apply to the younger population as well. Some excerpts from “Memory Loss - Should I Be Concerned?” by Margaret Winker, MD at http://www.americangeriatrics.org/education/forum/memoloss.shtml follow: “……..Problems with memory can have many causes, including medication side effects, strokes, infections, depression, thyroid disease and vitamin B12 deficiency, so it is important to be aware of problems with memory and identify causes that can be treated or prevented.” “If you have trouble with your memory, you should discuss the problem with your doctor. Tell the doctor the specific problems, when they occur, any recent changes in your home environment, and all the medicines you are taking, including nonprescription and herbal or "natural" remedies; also let him or her know if you drink alcohol. Tell your doctor about when the problems first started, and whether the problems have been the same, worse, or better over time. Any fever, chills, pain, weight loss or gain, or recent changes in other medical conditions should be discussed with your doctor. Any problems with depressed mood should be discussed, including problems with appetite or sleep disturbance.” “After discussing these issues and performing a physical examination, your doctor may perform a screening memory test that includes basic questions regarding memory. The result of the screening test may be normal, borderline, or abnormal.” “If the memory test is normal or low-normal, the doctor may suggest that you keep track of any memory problems over the next few months and repeat the test after six months or so. Or the doctor may suggest another type of memory testing called neuropsychological testing. This type of testing is similar to the memory screen but includes many more questions and tasks. The purpose of this test is to find out if the problems with memory are not severe enough to show up on the screening test, but are apparent in the more in-depth test. If the neuropsychological testing is normal, then the problems with memory are likely the very mild memory problems that may occur with aging. If the test is borderline, the results can help the doctor decide if additional testing might be important to look for a cause of memory loss.”
The article “Alzheimer's or Common Memory Loss,” by Bruce Robinson, M.D., M.P.H. at http://www.seniorpro.com/library/articles/falz19990708.htm suggests three different types of doctors which you might consider visiting to help diagnose you memory problems: Neurologist:
“Neurologists are medical doctors who specialize in diseases of the brain and nervous system. They have broad experience in these diseases, and understand the unusual causes of memory loss. They are the experts in the "differential diagnosis" of memory loss--what list of possible causes applies to an affected person and which cause is most likely.” Psychiatrist:
“Psychiatrists are medical doctors who specialize in the mind and mental disorders. Psychiatrists, particularly those with special training or interest in older persons, are experts in the management of the mental complications of memory problems. Depression, behavior problems, and severe confusion often interfere with best functioning of the affected person and caregiver. Depression is also a common cause of memory complaints.” Neuropsychologist:
“Neuropsychologists are experts in the measurement of mental function. They can test the brain in many areas, and offer the best answers to questions of the nature and seriousness of mental changes in early cases. The neuropsychologist can provide information to other doctors on the pattern of mental changes that is useful in determining the cause, particularly in difficult and unusual cases.”
An article titled “Not All Memory Problems are Caused by Alzheimer’s” at http://www.doctorinternet.co.uk/Specialities/Neurology.html#Not%20all%20memory%20problems again highlights the correlation between forgetfulness, stress and depression. “Waldemar and her colleagues at the Memory Disorders Research Unit of the Neuroscience Center at Copenhagen University Hospital reported on 785 consecutive patients referred over a period of 40 months. She said 43 percent of them had progressive dementia but the remaining patients had "potentially reversible conditions that were the primary cause of memory deficits in about 20 percent of the patients." Another 20 percent had "stable, mild cognitive disorder that might progress but it was unlikely," she said. The remaining 20 percent were just "healthy, worried adults." “Waldemar says her research underlines the need for early assessment by trained diagnosticians. She says that patients referred to the Copenhagen center are subjected to a wide array of tests and exams including physical examination, clinical history, X-rays and more sophisticated imaging studies that show changes in the brain, as well as standard laboratory tests. Although depression was the main non-Alzheimer cause for memory problems, she says that poor nutrition or thyroid disease can also mimic Alzheimer's disease.”
The University of California San Fransisco Medical Center has a “Memory and Aging Center” that investigates memory disorders. You many want to contact them. The following is an excerpt from their website at http://www.ucsfhealth.org/adult/medical_services/neuro/memory/ “Almost everyone has a lapse of memory from time to time. You can't remember where you parked your car or can't remember someone's name. This is normal. But when memory loss interferes with work performance, social activities and daily activities, you may need medical care.” “Memory disorders can severely disrupt your life. Hundreds of disorders, including Alzheimer's, can cause memory loss or dementia. Memory loss may be due to conditions such as small strokes in the brain, diabetes, high blood pressure, nutritional deficiencies, reactions to medications, alcoholism and even depression can cause symptoms similar to dementia.” “At UCSF Medical Center, we treat memory disorders at our Memory and Aging Center, the only comprehensive memory disorders center in Northern California.” To obtain a thorough diagnosis and treatment, please call:
Memory and Aging Center (415) 476-6880
You may need a referral from your primary care doctor
Physician referrals can also be obtained by calling (888) 689-UCSF
Another clinic you might consider is the UCLA Memory Disorders Clinic. See the website at http://www.healthcare.ucla.edu/handbook/program.asp?version=5619&programid=472 for a brief description of the program. Duke University also has a Memory Disorders Clinic. Contact information can be found at http://www.duke.edu/deptdir/Memory_Disorders_Clinic.html
Because your question conveyed some serious concern about your seemingly constant forgetfulness, I believe you might benefit from some type of medical investigation and diagnosis. Maybe the first step is a psychiatrist or neuropsychologist, to see if medication is a possible avenue in treating depression and associated medical problems.
I hope this helps. I wish you all the best. I’m sure you will be able to find a workable solution to to this problem.
umiat-ga
Google Search Strategy
+memory +problems +causes
“memory enhancement”
US clinics memory loss
memory disorders clinic
Two things I would like to add:
My fellow researcher, searchbot, was right in suggesting you look more into Adult Attention Deficit Disorder. You may review an extensive list of Adult ADHD symptoms from the Monterey Preventive Medical Clinic at http://www.wellnessmd.com/add.html
Another, lengthy article you should read, titled "Adult ADHD: Evaluation and Treatment in Family Medicine," by Russell Searight. American Family Physician (11/1/2000)can be found at http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m3225/9_62/67051979/print.jhtml A short excerpt follows:
"Adults who have retained some, but not all, of the symptoms of childhood ADHD may be best diagnosed as having ADHD in partial remission.(5,6) While the DSM-IV criteria for ADHD may be applied to adults, these dimensions tend to reflect presentations in children. The subtlety of ADHD symptoms among adults has led to several modifications of existing criteria. Rather than requiring six DSM-IV symptoms of inattention or hyperactivity, some investigators propose requiring only five such behaviors for older patients.(7) In addition, the symptoms take different forms in adults." "There is growing consensus that the central feature of ADHD is disinhibition.(8) Patients are unable to stop themselves from immediately responding, and they have deficits in their capacity for monitoring their own behavior. Hyperactivity, while a common feature among children, is likely to be less overt in adults. The "on the go" drivenness seen in many ADHD children is replaced in adults with restlessness, difficulty relaxing and a feeling of being chronically "on edge."(1) "Patients with a range of psychiatric conditions may emphasize difficulty with concentration, attention or short-term memory when they describe their problems to the physician.(14) It is important to exclude other psychiatric conditions, most of which are actually more prevalent than ADHD among adults (Table 5). Major depression and substance abuse, in particular, commonly accompany adult ADHD." "Importantly, most adults with ADHD do not have a "pure" form of the disorder. Comorbidity is more likely to be the rule than the exception. It is not clear whether these comorbid psychiatric conditions are a psychologic effect of preexisting ADHD or are simply associated with ADHD.(2) For example, substance abuse may have developed as a way to reduce the frustration arising from distractibility, inattention and impulsivity. If a comorbid psychiatric disorder exists in a patient with ADHD, the patient should be educated about the ADHD symptoms that will resolve with stimulant therapy and the symptoms of the other psychiatric condition that may warrant additional treatment."
It is important to note that Google researchers are not doctors....therefore, my advice still stands....go to a physician or clinic that is able to diagnose your symptoms on a comprehensive scale, whether it be a "Memory clinic" or a clinic specializing in Adult "ADHD". I imagine, however, that a Memory Clinic may also consider Adult ADHD in their evaluation.
One other point....I am sorry to have jumped in and "taken over" by ignoring your ongoing conversation with Searchbot. He is an excellent researcher and I owe him a public apology!
umiat
omniscientbeing-ga
As to whether I've ever been tested for ADHD, well, no, I haven't. I mentioned ADHD only because when searching on "Attention Span" all I seemed to get was sites talking about ADHD. Or are you thinking this is one thing I should especially be looking into?
Cheers,
Louche
the severity of your problem indicates to me you should be seeing a doctor.
Early onset Alzheimer's comes immediately to mind...I have it in my family.
There's no cure, but there are drugs which help to slow memory loss.
Whatever the cause, this is a job for medical professionals. Don't try to
solve this yourself. Good luck! Cath-ga
Also, with a bad memory, it's much easier to enjoy most popular film (and popular culture in general) since the repetitiveness is less cloying that way.
Probably worth reading Flowers for Algernon again though.
I’m my scenario, (For what its worth) I found that stress was impacting my sleep schedule. I was averaging 6 hours or less sleep every night. I noticed that if I went through periods of getting 8 to 10 hours sleep, my memory and attention were drastically improved. The bottom line is Sleep deprivation can and is a cause of Depression / Memory lapses, and in general Brain function.
My problem is when I laid down to sleep. I could be dead tired and when my head hits the pillow, my mind would begin to race on the days problems. If I watched TV, I could fall asleep, because my mind would be occupied.
The trick with Sleep deprivation is to always get up at the same time. Then plan backwards for when you need to be a sleep in order to get your 8 to 10 hours. My Doctor prescribed a sleep aid, that worked for the first 4 hours of sleep and has zero effects when I wake up. I would take it about 1 hour prior to when I wanted to go to sleep.
I don’t know if this will help you or not. But I noticed that getting that 8 to 10 hours of sleep changed my attitude, help make me my old happy self, and improved my memory.
Either way, I hope you get to feel better. People don’t understand the emotional effect memory lass has on you. Good luck
In your question, you briefly mention ADHD... have you ever been tested for this disorder?
Thank you,
searchbot
ADHD, which stands for "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder", is a tricky one. It's a disease commonly diagnosed in children, and it's been only a few years since it's become clear that, while for most children symptoms will subside as they grow older, it can persist into adulthood. Sometimes, it's even only diagnosed very late in life. At this point, I really don't want to suggest you have ADHD, but yes, it may be worth to have a look at. Before I start to answer your question turning into the false direction though, I would like to know a little more about what you call "attention span/memory" problems. ADHD patients do complain about attention problems. However, when asked, they do not tend to attribute this to them forgetting something, but rather to their lack of concentration. One moment, they're looking at something and try to stick with it, but the next minute, their mind jumps onto something else. Also, they find themselves to be very easily distracted, by things, that other people probably wouldn't even notice. They will sit in a chair and try to read a book and hear the fridge go on, notice leaves rustle on the roof... When trying to find out if an adult has ADHD or not, it is definitely necessary to look back at the childhood. Most of the time, characteristical symptoms will show, that may have been attributed to something else back then, but reevaluated today appear in a completely different light.
A questionnaire used to assess the likeliness of a child to have had ADHD in his childhood is for example the WURS, or Wender Utah Rating Scale. http://www.medal.org/docs_ch18/doc_ch18.12.html
(scroll down about one page) Maybe you want to have a look at this and see if something sounds familiar.
Please note: at this point, all this is nothing more than an idea. The final diagnosis would of course needed to be made by a professional you meet in person. However, several things you mentioned in your question do fit into the picture, including your mood swings and "poor performance" in social situations.
So, if you do find the above said to be relevant in your case, I'll be more than happy to go into detail and post a complete answer on ADHD. If after reviewing all this you are thinking: hell, no, this is not what my problems are like, we would have to see what else is there.
Please let me know which route to follow.
Best regards,
searchbot